S. Discussion

So you have your nice new copy of S. but you want to discuss it with like minded souls.

Well here is the place to do it, use the comments on this page for a general book discussion.

We do have to say, although it may be obvious, that anyone reading comments may get spoiled by mysteries in the book, if you are worried, maybe read from the top down to get to the place you think you are in the book so you can see what others are saying.

Speaking of spoilers we don't want to stop open and frank discussion, but if you think something is too big a reveal and will spoil the whole book then please don't post about it, not without spoiler tags at least.

Please try and help others, be kind and courteous and above all enjoy the book and its contents.

As this post has got to over 200 comments, if you add a comment, make sure you choose the latest page link to see your comments and others that have been added recently.

277 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 277 of 277 Newer› Newest»
  1. Question from a newbie...What does CF mean in the margins? Eric writes CF before a comment many times.
    Thank you for helping!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Yes, a few people have found that image in different places, it looks like a stock image was used.

    ReplyDelete
  3. So a 'ship of Theseus' is something that undergoes a series of subtle changes to end up being something substantially different to that which it started out. How many 'ships of Theseus' are there in the book? These are the ones I've spotted: 1) The group of 's' members 2) Jen and Eric both transform as people to become changed individuals by the end 3) the character 's.' Himself undergoes considerable mental growth 4) the boat. Have you spotted any others?

    ReplyDelete
  4. I am very late here, just got the book a few weeks ago. I do love it and this blog, thank you all! I just put the S on the spine!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi, yes the image seems to have been a stock image they used to represent the latest Santorini Man

    ReplyDelete
  6. I don't know if this is covered ground already but there is a real Mallon Planetarium in Eagleville, PA. It is located in a middle school but I believe it is open to the public. link The site has some interesting links regarding constellations as well.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Regarding the importance of the real Mallon Planetarium see this stub. Mallon Planetarium. Don't suppose anybody lives near by? I am 3 hours out from Eagleville, PA. Real Mallon here: link

    ReplyDelete
  8. I'm confused! I can't decide if this is something or nothing so I'll see what you all think. On p42 I've found the following quote "S. Looks out over the deck and counts the crewmen -again nineteen, not including Maelstrom." So by my reckoning that's 20 sailors. However, by p70, we are told as the ship sinks in the storm "even if he'd witnessed the ship being sucked into the deep, even if he'd counted the bodies of twenty men and one monkey strewn over the water........" To me it feels as though there is a discrepancy because by the time the ship sinks, there is another man on board, the one originally on the boat with the monkey, which would make twenty one men. Am I missing something here?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Does the second refernce simply refer to all the men including Maelstrom ?

      Delete
    2. It could mean something more. In the forward of my book, Caldeira mentions that there are 20 Straka books, but there are only 19 that we know of. So could it point to a "lost" Straka novel?

      Delete
  9. Which other works of fiction do you feel influenced this book?' I can see references to both 'The House of Leaves' and 'The raw Shark texts'. What else have you all noticed?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have to be honest here. A lot of other references. Anywhere from literature to philosophy to psychology to science to mathematics to religion. A good starting point would be to check out T.S. Eliot. He is a heavy influence.

      Delete
    2. Hello, that is quite interesting. Could you possible send me a list of possible influence authors!? I would truly appreciate that!

      Delete
  10. The discussion page has gone over 200 comments leading to paging problems, I have added a paging link, but it isn't perfect yet.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Muchos gracias for fixing! :)

      Delete
  11. Not sure why I can't see Danielle Parker's full comments, but in the "recent comments" section I see she asked "What books influenced "S."? She says she sees references to both 'The House of Leaves' and 'The raw Shark texts'.

    I see references to The Glass Bead Game and, thanks to prompting by JillAggie1, definite influences from Godel, Escher, Bach.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I started reading S. this month. I read through The Ship of Theseus and Eric's notes and pencils along with Jen's response. Then I went through reading blue and black ink, and that wasn't difficult. Now I'm reading through the orange/red and green ink and this has proven difficult in sense of chronology. I started at beginning of book, but realized when Jen said something about the fire and nothing had been said about a fire. Also, the first postcard is at a place where she mentions receiving it, but if you start from beginning of book Eric has been to Paris but that is it. Any one with suggestions or help?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mystimus has a great beginner guide that lays things out at his Beginner's Guide to Reading S. From my personal perspective, as crazy as this may sound, I read it page by page in this order: the marginalia on the page in chronological order (based on the in color), then read the text on the page, re-read the marginalia when it directly related to the text itself, then moved on to the next page. It will be hard to follow if you read it chronologically even though that would be normally the logical thing to do. I know it seems strange to read it with the time distortion doesn't seem to make sense, it will make things more clear. As for that postcard, it is not related to the trip in Paris. It is related to a different trip. That trip is mentioned casually on p. 142 but directly on p. 166. It is not in black ink. I don't want to say much more and ruin something for you. So if you haven't reached those pages yet in your currently method, that would be the reason.

      Delete
    2. I actually stopped at page 166 last night so I see what you're saying. So you think best way is to read all the margin notes together from page to page. I've read The Ship of Theseus all the way through.

      Delete
    3. It makes more sense to read the entire page and go page to page. I'm not saying it's perfect. Due to the different timelines in the marginalia, it will be confusing at time but it's not too disorienting.

      Delete
  13. I almost feel like I need to start over. I'm OCD so bad that I'm afraid I'm reading it wrong, but I know that the way they put the book together that there is ultimately no wrong way to read the book. It is like a I tell my friends, it is Abrams being Abrams LOL

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All part of the experience. This disjointed method of story-telling is echoing the disorientation of the protagonist. I find that I have to read each chapter at least twice before I can move on to the next chapter. I get the feeling that we are encouraged to read it multiple times. Some books require that. Can't imagine reading something like Jame Joyce's Ulysses in one sitting. Or Pound's Cantos. I guess maybe someone could and just "get it" through the one read-through but I'm definitely not one of those people. LOL

      Delete
  14. Me either LOL! Actually, I've stuck with the way I was reading it for my first full reading of the book. Where I got frustrated I went back and started chapter over and realized I missed some comments and after that it made more sense. I am going through the red and purple ink now.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Hey Everyone,

    I just finished S. today and been checking this out for the past few hours. This has probably been covered before but Vaclav was from Prague and J + E believe he is the best candidate for VMS. Straka is a Czech word meaning Magpie and when FXC goes into hiding in Brasil she gives herself the name Pega, which also means Magpie in Portuguese, a hint that FXC really did know who Straka was?

    C.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's something that has been discussed but what exactly do the bird names mean...Well, that they are all connected to each other but in what way? It really isn't clear why FXC uses magpie except that she seemed amused by it. Could mean more or it could mean she wanted to feel close to him. The bird names overlap in other ways. Again, not clear why...

      Delete
    2. Thanks for your reply Debbie :)
      I'll look into these bird names and see if I can find any connections...
      Also, I noticed you've been covering the radio straka twitter account which tweeted a few days ago with "Who will join us and complete the 34th nineteen?" just wondering if you'd noticed. Finally, the Eotvos wheel website has an update on it's Santorini Man files talking about an Irish writer who's supposedly been IDed as the latest Santorini Man death, though I'm not sure how recent that is.

      Delete
  16. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Sadly, although the Eotvos Wheel site claims it would be updating soon, it hasn't had a new update in quite some time. The last post, the one about the Santorini Men, is from November 2013. I love the touch of the website that suggests there were all these old blog posts but of course, we can't actually read most of them. I think that's really neat! The information on the site is a bit wrong. Or the marginalia is wrong. I tend to think the site is wrong. I trust Jen and Eric more than JW Dominguez. I believe it is purposefully wrong. But it does fill in gaps of information aluded to in the book. I guess, take it with a grain of salt. I tend to think it has some sort of meaning but I'm a loon. Thoughts on the Eotvos Wheel Site

    ReplyDelete
  18. I was wondering how many readers of S. have found themselves buying or borrowing books from the library to supplement their journey? I know I have ended up buying several books in the course of the journey. Just wondering if others have ended up doing this as well.

    ReplyDelete
  19. On p. 453 in the margin notes, who did Eric hit "six or seven" times?
    I've finished the book, but this event is still unclear to me. It seems important since it appears that E & J left suddenly for Prague right after it happened.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've always thought it was Moody, too. I also thought Jen's notes on p445 alluded to that incident - "keep waiting for Moody news to hit."

      Delete
    2. I'm 99.9% sure that it wasn't Moody. The news about Moody was the upcoming/potential criminal investigation. Jen's comment leads me to believe that Jen was talking about the man who was following her. I think she would have named Moody if she'd seen him. Sounds like one of Bouchard's men caught them at the Planetarium (projector/steam tunnels) and Eric punched him. On speculation, I'd like to think the would-be attacker was quickly dispatched by an "S" after he was dragged back to the steam tunnels.

      Delete
  20. It isn't clear to me either. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think there is a definitive answer to this question. If I were only to guess, could it be the man in the suit that Jen talks about frequently in the margins that seems to follow her? The one she sees talking to Ilsa during a Ffoulkes lecture?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, this seems most likely. I wondered if it also might be Moody? He's erratic and drinking by the end, for reasons that aren't clear. I also want to know who is behind Serin.

      Delete
    2. Honestly, it never occurred to me that it could be Moody. I guess all the talk of Agents made me think of the "man in the suit." But it is an interesting point...After all, Moody does seem to be "losing it" as well as "losing" his credibility as a Straka scholar.

      Delete
  21. Hey everyone.

    I'm SURE someone has posted something identical to what I'm about to post, and I know that can be obnoxious, but there are like 10000 comments and I cant scroll through them all! So I have a question for all of you dedicated S readers. After finishing the book I felt completely lost, so I figured I must have missed something and started reading all about the backstory of this book, the different theories, etc. Ive decided that knowing that BEFORE i read the book would have been really helpful, so I've decided to pull a Jen/Eric and put my own thoughts and theories into the book before I hand it off to my partner to read. I've printed off information about santorini man, the ship of theseus, etc., and im going to jam my pages into the book like they did. But I have no idea where to start! How would you guys approach doing something like that, what are the things that you think a new reader to the book should know to start it? I would love one of you fanboys to give me your thoughts. Thanks!

    Charlie

    charles.finlayson@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  22. Charlie,

    Interesting concept. I hope you have fun with it. If I were doing the same, I would be sure to include the 1950 McKay's Magazine review of Ship of Theseus by Edsel B. Grimshaw (http://sfiles22.blogspot.com/2013/12/mckays-magazine-review-ship-of-theseus.html) and maybe, if you like it, the alternative ending to Chapter 10 posted at jenheyward.tumblr.com.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I definitely agree. The alternative ending is a must, and maybe just a short list of where the santorini deaths were found to show scope. Something else that may be useful would be a list of Strakas published work. I wouldn't put too much in there though! There is a lot of fun to be had in tracking down the clues.

      Delete
  23. First off, sorry this question isn't about the actual book, but more about the response to the book.

    I've noticed in several articles, reviews, etc. online, writer's use the word 'ephemera' to describe the inserts in the book. My concern with the word is that it isn't a term in the lexicon of most people. It's not a word you hear often. If it were me writing about the book without having read any other review, I'd have probably called the items 'relics' or 'memorabilia'. Using a thesaurus (and it is an older {4th} edition of Reget's), I can't see any tie to the word 'ephemera' in any of the words I would use (and I would describe these as common words).

    I've become temporarily obsessed with tracking this word. My thought is: one reviewer used the word, and several other writers (as is common, certainly with the internet and everyone has their own blog or column) liked the sound of it, so they copied it into their own views on the book.

    If anyone can find the first occurrence of this word in reviews, let me know. The earliest I've found is in the Telegraph's review (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/fictionreviews/10404799/S-by-JJ-Abrams-and-Doug-Dorst-review.html) on Oct. 29, 2013. I'd like to track by date.

    I know 'ephemera' is more likely to be used by antique dealers and collectors (in describing vintage postcards, trading cards, etc.), but I think it would be interesting to track all the reviewers who basically copied the term for their own reviews (which would mean they also didn't review the book on the book's merits alone, but also read reviews sometime during, before, or after reading the book). Not that this would disqualify any reviews for any reason. I just like the idea of tracking the word as a semantic study, sort of like a trending hashtag.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, I just found the word. It was first used by the publisher in an April 29, 2013 promotional piece (http://www.mulhollandbooks.com/2013/04/29/j-j-abrams-next-project-a-novel-to-be-published-by-mulholland-books/). I might go through as many reviews, though, and document how many people used the word 'ephemera' in their writing. It might also be interesting to compare those which use the word and those which use other words. Those that don't use the word probably (maybe?) didn't read the publicity stuff beforehand (or maybe they just choose to use their own words for the review, rather than taking words from the publisher).

      Delete
    2. Another word that seems to pop up, and even less used in the average person's vocabulary: marginalia. Here's something like a review from a young adult librarian who came upon the book randomly (without reading any of the promotional writings or reviews online): http://acaseforbooks.wordpress.com/about/ . She uses neither 'ephemera' nor 'marginalia' in her writing. She uses words that came from her own mind. I think the power of influence, however subtle or obvious, is interesting.

      Delete
    3. I really enjoyed your comments! I have a fascination with words and I found your research regarding the origins of "ephemera" very interesting. I wonder if the term was chosen by a marketing professional at Mulholland Books or if this word was chosen by Doug Dorst himself. Dorst admits to a fascination with words. I have found his use of antiquated words throughout the book very interesting. I asked him about it during an AMA Reddit session. Dorst admits to being a word geek. But also the "power of influence" is also interesting. Particularly the comparisons of S. to other known works and it begins to be echoed from one review to the next.

      Delete
  24. Are the authors behind the book really writing the Eric Husch twitter? Is there a possibility they might write a sequel?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We still aren't 100% sure about the Jen and Eric twitter accounts.

      Doug Dorst did a Reddit AMA recently and mentioned that he has absolutely no plans for a sequel at the moment.

      Delete
  25. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  27. Hey! My group of university students is doing a project called 'Memes of 'S.'. We're making memes out of the book 'S.' and we would love your opinion. It would help us out and give you a good laugh! Check out our twitter page. https://twitter.com/Stenfold

    ReplyDelete
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  30. Hello everybody, I am new to the book in fact I am still reading the first chapter of it. So I am a little lost around here and I hope I am not posting it in the wrong place. Anyway, is this blog still active? The last mesage I see is from an add... Well, I just wanted to share someting I found out that might be of some value. I was reading the first chapter "where it begins, where it ends" where the man on the overcoat sits in a bar and describes is feeling as tired, wet and in a dream state. Happens that I am reading also a novel by american writer Paul Auster named Winter Journal and in the first chapter of that book Auster describes on day of his youth when he sat on a bar tired, wet and eshausted. He felt that because he was producing a movie (any relation with JJ Abrams here!?), the movie had been shot over a bridge (also it seems the man on overcoat fall out of a bridge too)... I don't know if it is relevant or not and I didn't have time to look more further into it. I can provide page numbers later if you like. Anyway, is there any forum where to discusse this book...!?

    ReplyDelete

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  35. Hey everyone,

    I've just begun the reading of S. but from what I've seen so far, and seems to be missed for the most part is the heavy undercurrent of references to the "Ancient Mysteries", Alchemical Arts, and Mystery Schools.

    In the book, JJ is regularly making references using metaphor to the structures of conciousness as well as the shape and architecture of the Universe as describe in Ancient Egypt, the masonic Order, and general magic and mystery schools the world at large.

    In the first chapter alone he begins with a character which is lost in a maze town, drowned in water, meaning that he's just submerged himself into the depths of the feminine. A further indication of this is when he blatantly states that the mans entire right side hurts. (indicating his masculine side)
    This is used because the man’s masculine side has been overtaxed so thus he is submerging himself into the waters of the feminine to uncover a more balanced way of being. (The city reflects his unbalanced way of being being off tilt)
    The relationship to the masculine and feminine sides of the body can be read on this site or just googled.
    http://www.dailyom.com/articles/2006/3938.html

    The first chapter alone has all over the place these metaphors relating to going down into the body and into the root. (or root chakra) Or in other words into the collective unconcious and the root history of our society.

    Symbols used such S. indicate Scorpion, or Scorpio, or the Snake from the Garden of Eden. Whilst the main character carries a "dried" up fruit indicating a reference to the fruit of knowledge. pg 6

    This fruit is reffered to as "ancient and petrified".
    The word ancient is then used again where the description of the cities physics is described as ancient and flawed as on page 8 and on pg 4 as well "ancient and flawed geometries"
    These are references to the Ancient Mysteries schools body of knowledge into the Sacred Geometry and Number.

    Numbers like 3,6,9 show up many times (which are important in the mystery schools)
    The word Mobius is used on page 10 and 11 referencing the geometrical structure of the universe as it is also coupled with words surrounding it relating to sound.
    These two pages together have heavy references to torriodal mathematics and sacred geometry.
    Some info on torroidal math and the importance of 3,6, and 9 is here: http://vortexmath.webs.com/

    In this radio here mathematician Michael Sneider talks about how the geometry in our society and our understanding of number isn’t aligned with natural geometry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f81ZEVO6Btw

    Further information on a more natural and geometrical form of mathematics is here:
    www.constructingtheuniverse.com
    Within this site you’ll find the ties of geometry to Ancient Mystery Schools.

    Again focus is put within the body on the desciptions of the "organ grinder" and his relationship to money and trusting the person he is working with. These are more aspects relating to the root chakra and related the Scorpio constellation.

    In the first chapter alone JJ is setting up a world where one is going down into a roots of society to discover the source of the flawed geometry. This is a major reference to "sacred geometry" and how most of our society is built off of flawed geometries (ones that are disproportional with natures natural ratios of Phi.)

    The reason why JJ Chose S to be Scorpio is because scorpio is the investigator, they are all about going deep down into the collective unconcious ( or flawed geometries of old cities) and uncovering the truth.

    Anyway those are some of the aspects I observed, I don’t have the time to write everything I saw, plus it wouldn’t be too fun it I gave all the secrets away.

    Enjoy!

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hey everyone,

    I've just begun the reading of S. but from what I've seen so far, and seems to be missed for the most part is the heavy undercurrent of references to the "Ancient Mysteries", Alchemical Arts, and Mystery Schools.

    In the book, JJ is regularly making references using metaphor to the structures of conciousness as well as the shape and architecture of the Universe as describe in Ancient Egypt, the masonic Order, and general magic and mystery schools the world at large.

    In the first chapter alone he begins with a character which is lost in a maze town, drowned in water, meaning that he's just submerged himself into the depths of the feminine. A further indication of this is when he blatantly states that the mans entire right side hurts. (indicating his masculine side)
    This is used because the man’s masculine side has been overtaxed so thus he is submerging himself into the waters of the feminine to uncover a more balanced way of being. (The city reflects his unbalanced way of being being off tilt)
    The relationship to the masculine and feminine sides of the body can be read on this site or just googled.
    http://www.dailyom.com/articles/2006/3938.html

    The first chapter alone has all over the place these metaphors relating to going down into the body and into the root. (or root chakra) Or in other words into the collective unconcious and the root history of our society.

    Symbols used such S. indicate Scorpion, or Scorpio, or the Snake from the Garden of Eden. Whilst the main character carries a "dried" up fruit indicating a reference to the fruit of knowledge. pg 6

    This fruit is reffered to as "ancient and petrified".
    The word ancient is then used again where the description of the cities physics is described as ancient and flawed as on page 8 and on pg 4 as well "ancient and flawed geometries"
    These are references to the Ancient Mysteries schools body of knowledge into the Sacred Geometry and Number.

    Numbers like 3,6,9 show up many times (which are important in the mystery schools)
    The word Mobius is used on page 10 and 11 referencing the geometrical structure of the universe as it is also coupled with words surrounding it relating to sound.
    These two pages together have heavy references to torriodal mathematics and sacred geometry.
    Some info on torroidal math and the importance of 3,6, and 9 is here: http://vortexmath.webs.com/

    In this radio here mathematician Michael Sneider talks about how the geometry in our society and our understanding of number isn’t aligned with natural geometry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f81ZEVO6Btw

    Further information on a more natural and geometrical form of mathematics is here:
    www.constructingtheuniverse.com
    Within this site you’ll find the ties of geometry to Ancient Mystery Schools.

    Again focus is put within the body on the desciptions of the "organ grinder" and his relationship to money and trusting the person he is working with. These are more aspects relating to the root chakra and related the Scorpio constellation.

    In the first chapter alone JJ is setting up a world where one is going down into a roots of society to discover the source of the flawed geometry. This is a major reference to "sacred geometry" and how most of our society is built off of flawed geometries (ones that are disproportional with natures natural ratios of Phi.)

    The reason why JJ Chose S to be Scorpio is because scorpio is the investigator, they are all about going deep down into the collective unconcious ( or flawed geometries of old cities) and uncovering the truth.

    Anyway those are some of the aspects I observed, I don’t have the time to write everything I saw, plus it wouldn’t be too fun it I gave all the secrets away.

    Enjoy!

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hey everyone,

    I've just begun the reading of S. but from what I've seen so far, and seems to be missed for the most part is the heavy undercurrent of references to the "Ancient Mysteries", Alchemical Arts, and Mystery Schools.

    In the book, JJ is regularly making references using metaphor to the structures of conciousness as well as the shape and architecture of the Universe as describe in Ancient Egypt, the masonic Order, and general magic and mystery schools the world at large.

    In the first chapter alone he begins with a character which is lost in a maze town, drowned in water, meaning that he's just submerged himself into the depths of the feminine. A further indication of this is when he blatantly states that the mans entire right side hurts. (indicating his masculine side)
    This is used because the man’s masculine side has been overtaxed so thus he is submerging himself into the waters of the feminine to uncover a more balanced way of being. (The city reflects his unbalanced way of being being off tilt)
    The relationship to the masculine and feminine sides of the body can be read on this site or just googled.
    http://www.dailyom.com/articles/2006/3938.html

    The first chapter alone has all over the place these metaphors relating to going down into the body and into the root. (or root chakra) Or in other words into the collective unconcious and the root history of our society.

    Symbols used such S. indicate Scorpion, or Scorpio, or the Snake from the Garden of Eden. Whilst the main character carries a "dried" up fruit indicating a reference to the fruit of knowledge. pg 6

    This fruit is reffered to as "ancient and petrified".
    The word ancient is then used again where the description of the cities physics is described as ancient and flawed as on page 8 and on pg 4 as well "ancient and flawed geometries"
    These are references to the Ancient Mysteries schools body of knowledge into the Sacred Geometry and Number.

    Numbers like 3,6,9 show up many times (which are important in the mystery schools)
    The word Mobius is used on page 10 and 11 referencing the geometrical structure of the universe as it is also coupled with words surrounding it relating to sound.
    These two pages together have heavy references to torriodal mathematics and sacred geometry.
    Some info on torroidal math and the importance of 3,6, and 9 is here: http://vortexmath.webs.com/

    In this radio here mathematician Michael Sneider talks about how the geometry in our society and our understanding of number isn’t aligned with natural geometry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f81ZEVO6Btw

    Further information on a more natural and geometrical form of mathematics is here:
    www.constructingtheuniverse.com
    Within this site you’ll find the ties of geometry to Ancient Mystery Schools.

    Again focus is put within the body on the desciptions of the "organ grinder" and his relationship to money and trusting the person he is working with. These are more aspects relating to the root chakra and related the Scorpio constellation.

    In the first chapter alone JJ is setting up a world where one is going down into a roots of society to discover the source of the flawed geometry. This is a major reference to "sacred geometry" and how most of our society is built off of flawed geometries (ones that are disproportional with natures natural ratios of Phi.)

    The reason why JJ Chose S to be Scorpio is because scorpio is the investigator, they are all about going deep down into the collective unconcious ( or flawed geometries of old cities) and uncovering the truth.

    Anyway those are some of the aspects I observed, I don’t have the time to write everything I saw, plus it wouldn’t be too fun it I gave all the secrets away.

    Enjoy!

    ReplyDelete


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